Is the sun setting by moving on its own path, or is the earth turning away from the sun?
There’s really no nice, smooth way to get into two or three of my topics, so I’m just gonna come right out and type. There are a few topics I’ve just been sitting on for well over a year. Part of it is because I really want what I’m thinking to come across as clearly as possible but Biblically aligned.
I love the Old Testament. The New Testament is wonderful, too, mainly because it makes room for me to be part of the family of God, but I love the movement of the Old Testament because I’ve always liked math, science, and history because I never had to “explain myself” like I did with literature. It was a “take it or leave it” deal. Well,…at least until I started learning about how people change history (or what’s written in the books provided to the public). I learned that it could be changed depending on who told the story. I learned statistics can be used to change a picture. I learned pertinent information could be omitted to lead people to a wrong conclusion. In short, I learned that people could be manipulative when they wanted to get people to believe what they wanted. Sometimes, it was accidental as when we tell our side or what happened from our view, but many times, it was deliberate. I have come to learn that when the world presents something, I need to approach it with the understanding that I likely do not have the entire truth. That is not to say that every instance is this way, but I know that many are likely to alter information when money, power, and position are on the line.
Okay, that may have been extra, so back to the Old Testament. There is a battle that has always intrigued me. (I hope to one day get to see a replay of God’s victories on a Heavenly big screen so I can just watch in amazement.) It’s a battle in which Joshua is leading the Israeli army against 5 kings and their armies. The Gibeonites (the ones who had tricked Israel into a covenant) had been attacked for making a treaty with Israel. They ran to Israel for help. The Lord told them He’d be with them, so Israel hurried through the night to their rescue.
“10 And the Lord discomfited them before Israel, and slew them with a great slaughter at Gibeon, and chased them along the way that goeth up to Bethhoron, and smote them to Azekah, and unto Makkedah. 11 And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Bethhoron, that the Lord cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword.
12 Then spake Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon. 13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day. 14 And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the Lord hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the Lord fought for Israel.” – Josh 10:1-14
Now, in addition to the fact that Israel’s army had no rest for moving hurriedly to get to the Gibeonites overnight, battling during the day, and seeing God rain down giant hailstones to kill more enemies, God performed yet another miracle that same day. He made the SUN stand STILL and not set until they had finished their battle.
I have thought about this periodically for almost the last 10 years as I think about God’s control over nature. Of course, that should have been clear to me since God created it, but I think that not knowing or remembering that it happened made it seem that much more awesome! God made the sun stand still. Periodically, other phrases would come to mind, particularly things we learned and say every day from the Bible. One is “from the rising of the sun to the going down the same…” in saying that the Lord doesn’t change. The sun rises and sets. Now, you’d think in 500+ years that that phrase would have phased itself out of our speech if it wasn’t true, right?
Fast forward to the time when I start looking for material to teach children about Creation. I focused on understanding Creation according to the Bible so that I could explain where modern science is wrong. Answers in Genesis and Hovind’s ministries were practically genius in the way they teach and explain. The sun, moon, and stars were created on Day 4, which kills sun worship religions, kills some teachings on evolution, and kills the idea that we need the sun for light or to exist. They were my primary sources for curriculum and explanations in many areas…except this one. I see many times that the more time people spend studying in a field, the more reluctant (almost unwilling) to even consider that what they’ve learned is flawed. (But I still love their material and don’t think ill of them.)
There are many more people who have been happy to go into detail about this and have the scientific evidence some require to even consider the idea, but the Bible does not support a globe. Round? Yes. Spherical? No. This is why I say that if challenging what we’ve been taught is an issue to you that you might want to skip this or not come back. Of all the topics I have ever seen hotly debated, this is the ONLY topic where I’ve actually seen Christians actually attack, rip into, and insult other Christians!! You’d think someone had just punched someone’s mother by the way some Christians defend this globe. They come out as if their lives depend on the earth being a giant ball…or pear-shaped…or “oblate spheroid” depending on which description fits today. I am not about to deal with people coming here to claim heresy or whatever ridiculous attacks people have. I’ve already seen almost 2 years of it. It would be different if someone was teaching another Jesus. The shape of the earth is not a salvation issue.
So the question…If it’s not a “salvation issue,” why bring it up?
1) I have questions that aren’t always answered in church. It’s just the way thoughts come to me while I’m in class or listening to people talk.
2) The shape of the earth is not typically a major issue to Believers, but it can completely shift an unbeliever’s worldview to want to know more about God.
3) I don’t believe that God would make us wait 4500+ years to learn about the whether or not we spin around on an orbit and need to be informed through a religion that teaches life without Jesus after He went through the trouble of giving us details about ourselves, Heaven, and earth in the Scriptures. Why would God allow His people to be deceived in their perception of His world and then put that into the Bible? Obviously the people at the Tower of Babel and all the world believed they could reached God once they got past a certain level. God is not deceptive. The prophecies were mysteries to be revealed and understood, but the earth was never meant to be a mystery. We went way off into left field somewhere along the line.
4) If pillars are similar to what I’ve seen in colossal buildings, what are pillars of earth? Where are the 4 corners of the earth? Where do the winds start blowing? Why does the Bible reference falling stars as a sign of judgment if stars shoot, supernova, and fall all the time? If a star falls to earth, is it going to crush us since they are so hot and so huge? I’m only supposed to see the moon (and stars) at night due to it reflecting the sun, so why do I see both the moon and sun (but not stars) out at the same time?
5) When I watch movies about going into outer space, why can the people at control tower or command central get the rocket ship back into orbit and safely back, but the people steering it are afraid of spinning out of control and floating off into oblivion? What magic lasso are they using to pull people back?
6) If it’s too hot to get to the core, how do we know the composition and temperature of the inside of the earth? What’s measuring what can’t be measured?
- Joshua 10 – The sun and moon were commanded to stand still in their places – not the earth. This is like a legal case. If an order is given to A & B, then C is not bound by that order. The earth was not “indirectly” ordered to freeze in its orbit while all surrounding stars and planets stopped. The sun stopped its movement. This is recorded three times in God’s Word within three verses. Am I supposed to believe God missed it three times but allowed it to be recorded the same way in another document?
– What I find odd and amusing is that people will adamantly refuse to believe that the sun stopped rotating. Instead, you will hear them explain it to say that the entire universe stopped moving and that by saying “sun,” God implied that it was the “earth” that stopped rotating…and didn’t go down for about a day. Well, since these same people believe science is 100% correct about the heliocentric (sun-centered/sun worship) theory, let’s see what science says would happen if the earth stopped moving.
Yep, so all of the soldiers in battle would be hurled through the air at almost 1000mph (since they’re near the equator). Yet somehow, they felt none of these effects. Not one mention in the Bible about how they had to pick up the battle in another location (after being injured by earth putting on the brakes). I find it interesting that the sun would now “rise” in the opposite side and set 365 days later while the earth just stands still as the sun and the rest of the galaxy sprint through space without us.
Evidence for a long day in other civilizations – video
This person believes earth slowed and stopped rotation but lists other civilizations’ recordings as well. link
- “5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.” – Ecc 1:5
Solomon is the wisest man to ever live (not counting Christ). Preschool children are taught and will explain that we live on a globe/spinning sphere. Are we to believe that the best of us in wisdom was too stupid to understand what a 4-year-old is taught?
- There are more than a dozen verses stating the sun rises/arises/goes up and sets/goes down.
Why not just say that the sun comes into view or something else if the sun isn’t the thing doing the actual moving? If the sun isn’t moving but the Bible says it is, how can we trust what’s written – much less expect someone else to believe what we claim (the Bible) is true?
- “6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.” – Gen 1:6-8
“14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.” – Gen 1:14-19
According to the Bible, the firmament is between the waters. We have water on the ground and water above the air. On Day 4, the sun, moon, and stars were created and set inside the firmament. This creates a direct conflict between modern science and the Bible. Science says that the sun is 93,000,000 miles away (always wondered how you could figure those numbers when you can’t actually travel the distance to make sure you didn’t miscalculate once the pressure changed. How are we supposed to verify that accuracy except to accept some numbers people decided to use?) and takes umpteen thousand years to give us light. However, the Bible says it’s inside our firmament.
So, if the firmament is between waters, that means that waters are resting on the top of the firmament.
firmament - raqiya` From רָקַע (H7554) definition
extended surface (solid), expanse, firmament
expanse (flat as base, support)
firmament (of vault of heaven supporting waters above)
considered by Hebrews as solid and supporting ‘waters’ above
“18 Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?” – Job 37:18
I had never really pictured “air” (what I’d been told was the whole firmament) as being strong or like a shaped looking glass. The sky…is strong…and like a shaped glass through which to look…
- The moon has its own light.
Science says the sun gives light, and the moon reflects the sunlight; however, the Bible says the sun gives its own light, and the moon gives its own light.
Ref – “11 The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear.” – Hab 3:11
“29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:” – Matt 24:29
Isa 13:10, Isa 30:26, Isa 60:19-20, Jer 31:35, Eze 32:7, Mark 13:24, Rev 21:23
It seems that the moon gives off a cold light, which means during the night, you will be warmer in the shade than in direct light (opposite the sun). I haven’t done any temperature experiments, but there are plenty to check out and read comments on youtube.
- The Bible doesn’t say anything about the earth moving.
There are a few Bible references (only need 2 or 3 witnesses to establish a thing) that talk about the earth being fixed, immoveable, or (e)stablished that it cannot be moved. I posted this verse once to show a brother why some of us are questioning what we were taught. Although he went off on a rant about being blinded by satan, someone else was respectful enough to state that the verse has to do with nothing changing until God moves it. While that or similar explanations sound good, it doesn’t fit with the way it’s used.
“1 The Lord reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the Lord is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved. 2 Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting.” – Psalm 93:1-2
Every time stablished or established is written, it’s written as though it’s carved into stone meaning “it ain’t goin’ nowhere.” Verse 2 clearly doesn’t mean the Lord’s throne is set but mobile, so why would we assume this doesn’t mean just what’s written – “that it’s not moving”? It doesn’t move in any other reference, but somehow it gets a pass when talking about earth.
No real words to say here…just that I find it interesting that flight calculations are made based on the earth not spinning.
“Derivation and Definition of a Linear Aircraft Model” p.108 (see also p. 7 for summary introduction and second paragraph and pdf page 36 concluding remarks) –
“This report documents the derivation and definition of a linear aircraft model for a rigid aircraft of constant mass flying over a flat, nonrotating earth. The derivation makes no assumptions of reference trajectory or vehicle symmetry. The linear system equations are derived and evaluated along a general trajectory and include both aircraft dynamics and observation variables.” – document
So 100+ pages of work, lengthy computations, and effort went into a something that is totally useless because the earth is actually spinning around, but they decided to waste time calculating as if it weren’t spinning? I took three different calculus classes between high school and college (was a math major once), so I liked solving equations. However, I don’t see any profit or point in wasting so much time on something that would be trashed because the answers are based on faulty truths.
Federal Aviation Administration has a similar document.
See Section 2.1 Reference Frames – pdf p. 7 regarding calculations based on a “flat, non-rotating Earth” – document
Many will reason this to be okay because the air around us is supposed to be moving at the same time. However, this document also states the calculations are made in “a stationary atmosphere over a flat, non-rotating earth.” document - p 30/pdf 35. Other references to the earth are listed in usual places such as end of document.
This is NOT a new idea springing up and taking hold of people. It just happens to be one that spread virally through social media.
This is the Library of Congress’s (as of May 1998) list of science references for those believing in a flat earth. Hardly seems worth listing if there wasn’t some value.
“The Flat Earth and its Advocates: A List of References” – document
Unlike many who changed their views, my curiosity was sparked over many questions over years.
- Why do people get light-headed when they stand on their heads in N. America but not have any problems when they visit Australia when they’re continually upside down?
- How does water stick to the earth spinning around but allow for evaporation or spin off everything else that spins (like the old art wheels)?
- Why do we never worry about flying off the edge of the world into outer space when the pilot used autopilot but laugh at the idea of sailing off the edge of the earth?
- Why don’t the artic poles experience similar changes, especially when the south pole faces the sun? Shouldn’t it experience long times of sun, too, when it’s away from the sun? Why does the “Land of the Midnight Sun” only apply to one?
- How can every eye see Jesus at the same time if I’m on the side He isn’t and don’t watch tv, internet, or social media?
- Why do people tell me to just look out of a plane window to see curvature and then not realize the windows on the plane are pre-curved/convex?
I had questions, but they weren’t enough to cause me to want to challenge what I was taught until I remembered the Bible verses and remembered how far modern scientists have gone to suppress the truth of God through the “big bang” and evolution – neither of which would have a strong foundation for their beliefs if people believed a geocentric theory of the earth and people being God’s special and unique creation. If people believe we are some random chance happening that occurred due to one big fart – against all laws of science – came together to form life out of the great, big bubbling ooze or that we were planted by some alien life form, then they are less likely to believe God cares (if they believe in Him at all) because we are merely twirling around daily at 66.6 degrees rotating around the sun spiraling through infinite space hoping like crazy that we don’t bump into another galaxy or something that could destroy our existence as we overheat the planet, overpopulate the territory and just wait for life as we know it to vanish while some other creatures in a galaxy far, far away go on as if we never existed. It’s hard to convince someone that God came for us when you are taught that you are only as important as a speck of sand on the beach, have no more worth than the ant you accidentally walked on, and that we can make our own rules because God had nothing to do with this universe. However, when you see the world is the center of everything, God is so intent on knowing what is going on that the earth is His footstool, and that He set everything in order according to His purpose, your whole mentality changes.
Before I give you sources in which you can check on your own, let me explain some things:
- This is not a salvation issue. Stop attacking people for refusing to take things as face value. You can’t be angry at people for questioning what we’ve been told when we already don’t believe in the big bang or evolution. We are to be able to trust ALL parts of our lives to God, trust ALL parts of the Bible, and know that ALL wisdom comes from God, which means that we can find answers in the Bible. The Bible is our primary source for information. Science needs to fall in line with the Bible – not the other way around. If the Bible has to be reinterpreted or discarded to prove something that’s supposed to be in the Bible, then we have a problem.
- As with any issue, there are people who give out wrong information on purpose or who make a group look like lunatics. Not everyone who believes in geocentricism or even a flat earth agrees on how it looks or how everything works because people are still learning…or re-learning. However, most that I’ve come across are open to learning and do not believe they hold the one true answer on this subject.
- This isn’t here for debate or to be a science class. Comments have been disabled for this post because I have seen entirely too many people hurt because one person would bash the other person with his beliefs (both views) trying to get him to cave in and change his mind. I hate seeing it, and I don’t want it here. Again, there are many people who have invested quite a bit of time to study and answer your detailed questions. You can find them or their work easily online. At the end of the day, my only response is, “What does the Bible say?”
- Most of the people you may encounter who hold a geocentric or flat earth belief aren’t Believers, yet, so remember that as you read or listen to them.
The videos that started the journey:
BBC documentary – The moon landing was filmed in a studio
Wait a minute! If we didn’t get to the moon, we watched something filmed in a studio, and we can’t get past the Van Allen Rays, what happened to all the people we sent into “outer space”? Where are they? Didn’t we watch the Challenger explode (in school) and then watch the explosion on anniversaries?
“Challenger” Space Shuttle Disaster – Another NASA Staged Hoax
“Breaking News! CHALLENGER SPACE SHUTTLE CREW ALIVE, SAFE & Employed!” – video
Hold on! Ssssoooo, if we hadn’t gone to the moon, and the astronaut launches even in the 80s didn’t send anyone anywhere, who took pictures? How did we get our Netscape picture? What have we been looking at all this time?
NASA admits they don’t use real images from space – video
Flat Earth Clues
200 Proofs the Earth Is Not a Spinning Ball Videobook
God’s Flat Earth & the Firmament of His Power Part III
“Science Vs. Scripture – Joshua 10:12-14”
Flat earth? What would be the motive for such a deception? – video
“The Biblical Flat Earth: Quotes Of The Early Church Fathers And Protestant Reformers” – Psalm 148:4 “4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.” – website
Response to rants from respected Christian teachers – video (I don’t listen to Anderson though, so his opinion is irrelevant to me.) I know some will count them as false because of their stance on the earth; however, we don’t all agree on the same topics at the same time. That doesn’t make us ministers of satan. Many of the things on this blog I once believed because it’s what I was taught. As I studied more, I changed my views.
I realize this document talks about an elliptical spherical earth as well, but it hardly seems there would be a reason to set variables such as “f” for a flattening earth or establish ECEF to stand for earth-centered earth-fixed (pdf 318). – document
Comments/clip from an older documentary from scientists against globe – video
The earth is not a globe – video
Flat earth masonic matrix manipulators – video
Global lie – video - “Without the globe model, the big bang model wouldn’t be considered. Without the big bang model, the theory of evolution wouldn’t be on the table. Without the theory of evolution, extraterrestrials seeding mankind is over. Without these lies, people start thinking about the Creator…Who we are. Where we came from…” – 1:12:07
Flat Earth in movies – video
The Morgile for those who want different and in-depth answers to explain some questions – channel I’d give specific videos, but I don’t remember which videos I ran across before taking a long break from the entire topic.